Paul & Jimbo talk about the biggest myths in biomechanics - including why cables don't provide constant tension, why squatting ass to grass isn't right for everyone, and why slinging a green band on a leg press isn't necessarily a great idea.
Podcast Episode 1
Paul: Welcome to the PT project podcast with myself, Paul and Jimbo. This is our first ever episode of the PT project podcast. So, it could go terribly. It could go, well, we're going to find out, I'm sure there'll be some little bugs as we go along. We'll start with a very, very quick one-to-two-minute, little bit of spiel on what we are and what we try and do.
And then we're going to dive into our opening topic, which is bullshit biomechanics ideas that we think need addressing or are poorly understood. But if we start with. The PT project Jimbo, can you give us a tiny bit of overview as to like, what is the PT project? Why do we exist
James: What it is at heart is an education company that's based around excise mechanics, but it's looking at and applying it in an applicable way.
Not trying to confuse people but really trying to make sure the level of coaching can be pushed up within the industry. Yes, we could get help a lot deeper than that, but I'd say at heart, that's really what it is and why I'm so passionate about this, because I feel personally that understand excise mechanics was one thing within my career that really allowed me to provide better value to my clients.
Yeah. So, I know that then if I pass that on other coaches, they can provide better value to their clients as well. And it is the one thing we are educated or where we're qualified to, to teach to our clients. Yeah. So, we should bloody know what we're talking about.
Paul: And just like, we, we are qualified to teach nothing else.
I know, literally nothing else. Hopefully we know a few more things, but touching off just on what Jimbo said, and then we'll get into the topic. Like if I was starting again and I could start with one thing that would return the most on my investment as a young trainer. Mechanics is it like it's without question it, that's where I would start because most young coaches would do well.
I also think this to start in a gym and spend some time on the floor and develop coaching experience. I know there's a big push to be online from yesterday, but the moment you qualify I'm immediately online. Okay, fine. And that's going to play some role probably in your coaching journey, but the skills that you develop of coaching are primarily honed on the gym floor.
And the gym floor is the realm where biomechanics is really happening. And it's a thing where you can have the biggest impact, make the biggest difference to your clients, and therefore they stay with you and they're going to refer more people to you and you're going to earn more money and you're going to feel more confident and, Ooh, okay.
That's great. Right. So, if you were starting out. That's why you should start there. That's why we're passionate about it. As Jim said, we don't want to confuse people. We think lots of people do get confused. I'm sure there'll be moments when we may say something where you are like, what the hell did they just say?
I'm sure that will happen. Sometimes those are cool things that give you an opportunity to jump off into a topic and be like, I want to know more about what they just said, but we really do try and, and pride ourselves on communicating hopefully as simply as possible so that you can understand and crucially apply.
So that's the PT project. That's who we are and what we do now, let's get into the topic for the day. Bullshit, biomechanics ideas. So, Jimbo, do you want to kick us off with the first bullshit idea that we come across over
James: lot? I think the first one is you've got to sling a band on it. Got to put a band on a leg, press, got to put a band on the Smith machine press.
where he can band it up. It, it must be done. And that's where almost the trend's gone a little bit. Like you never actually see someone perform a leg press without a band you never actually see a Smith press without a band.
Paul: Yeah. And it doesn't matter the size of the band. Like I also heard that in Jimbo's wedding pictures, he's got bands around him. That's just something he insisted on during the wedding. He was like, get the bands. Ok, so what's bullshit about this idea then?
James: Obviously we, we are part of, probably responsible for load of people, just chucking bands on everything, but it, it goes with just following the crowd, you see a lot of people do one thing and then everyone starts following that.
But a couple of things, if we're always banding, especially obviously what's in trend now is, is top banding. So, banding in a way that reduces the load as we go down into the bottom part of the movement, whether the bottom part of a leg, press bottom, part of a Smith machine press bottom, part of maybe a Smith machine squat, something like that is banding in a way that makes the bar stroke foot platform lighter.
But something, this also does it reduces the momentum. Yeah. So, what it does is it makes it easier to perform. So sometimes we lose the skill of control because the band is providing that control. And if we're always doing this top band in and never going without it, we're never adjusting this band setup.
It is possible to start to lose that control of ability to change direction on load. So that's just one area that we've got to think, okay, do I need to go a phase in my programming where I'm not banding this leg press? Yeah. I haven't got that focus and I'm just slowing it down myself. I'm using my muscles to slow it down rather than using the band tension to slow that foot platform down.
I think that's, that's the key things we've got to really think about with that really is just not chucking a green band on anything. Thinking I had generic band, that's going to do whatever the weight on the bar, whatever the weight on the foot platform a green band's going to.
Paul: Yeah. I mean, that would be the bit that I would probably then jump in on and we haven't touched on this yet.
Why would you band it in the first place? Like, because most of the people we see slinging and it's always, always the green band on a leg press or a hack squat. It's always the green band, regardless. It doesn't matter if you have 18 plates on there or one plate - green band, it that's going to be…a little foreshadowing here, that's kind of the issue - it's the same band regardless of load.
And that can't be right because of this. The reason we are banding is we're trying to match the fact that your force output varies across the range that you're pushing in. And most of you will know from experience that your weak as piss in the bottom of a squatting motion and you get gradually stronger.
That's why everyone gives people grief online for half repping stuff. Look at this loser with a million plates on his squat moving half an inch. Right? And I'm with you. Half an inch is a bit of a pathetic range for that. But the idea is that we are weakest at the bottom, and we get stronger at the top and you go, okay, well maybe it will be a good idea to reflect that with the resistance that I place upon myself? That I ask for less force where I'm weak and more force where I'm strong.
We call that matching a resistance profile to a strength profile. Some people call that a congruent profile. Fancy word that – congruent. It just means in harmony with. A congruent profile gives you as much resistance as you can handle at that point in the range. If you can deal with 20 at the bottom, it gives you 20. If you can deal with 30 at the top, it gives you 30.
And so now we come to the leg press, the hack squat, and the bands. The green band, because it's always the green band, adds some resistance or takes off some resistance when it goes through a certain length change. Let's say for the sake of easy argument that it takes off or adds on 20 kilos, whichever way round you put your band on.
And then let’s say you've got a hundred odd kilos on there. Okay. Well, do I want something that gives me a 20% difference? Maybe I do right now, we'll talk maybe a little bit more about how these things start to change and. You know, speaking about it again, you are going to get stronger than just a 20% difference in most of your lower body pressing things as you go through it.
But all right, I could see that that's maybe not too far away, but what if I use that same 20 kilo reduction when I've got 300 kilos on the leg press well, is it 20% now? No, it's a much smaller percentage of that, whatever percentage that works out like seven half eight. I don’t know someone else out there can do the math on exactly what that works out to, but what happens if you are 40% stronger, bottom to top or 50% stronger bottom to top is that Bann now the appropriate band.
To have done the thing that you wanted to do. It came from a good place. You wanted to better match the resistance profile with the strength profile to create an exercise that was challenging everywhere. So, I see where the intention was. That was, you know, good for you, but unless we get the amount, right?
What we call the magnitude of the force, just a fancy way of saying the size of the force. Right? I use the example that it's a bit like brag into your pals, that you've got a slightly bigger Dick than your mate, because you've got an extra nought point nought, nought, nought, nought, nought, three inches. Like it might be technically true, but no one cares, right?
It's not a big enough difference for the brag to exist when you stick the green band on everything. Sometimes it's pissing in the wind, right? The difference that it makes to the amount of weight you've got on there is so negligible that you might as well not have bothered. That's the issue with always slinging.
Well, it's one of the issues with always slinging a band on is just how we got the right amount of band. Yeah.
James: Just to look at on the other side of the sort of equation as well, in terms of the right amount of band is when you go and put a green band on the Smith machine press, and we're going to stay with that same 20 kilo attention being applied or coming off, but you've got 40 kilos on the bar, or even say 60 kilos on the bar.
So, we've got 33% being taken off and we do not need a 33% difference between the top and the bottom on the press. So, there's one thing with a leg press, not adding enough. And there's one thing that a lot of people do on a Smith machine press is taking too much off. Very rarely do you see people bottom band and add it on.
So generally, they're taking too much off so they can put a bit more weight on, and you don’t create a currenting profile. You go too far the other way. Yeah. Where now it's way too easy in the bottom and relatively actually way too heavy in the top. So, you've much as well. Just take the band off and work at what you got.
rather than, rather than trying to go too far the other way. And at least under banding on a, on a leg press and not having enough of a percentage changing magnitude still helps a little bit, cause it still trends in the right direction. But yes, as we go that other way on a say, Smith machine press, it completely goes the other way.
So, we get less out of it than what we would of without a band on there at.
Paul: But we get that you are putting the band on there. Cause most of the people who are somewhat into biomechanics get annoyed sometimes by people who aren't into biomechanics of going like putting bands on. They're just trying to make it too easy for themselves in a bunch of places.
No, if you get it right, you're trying to make it harder for yourself in a bunch of places, but that is dependent on you getting it, right? Like if you don't get that right, as Jimbo said, you could make it too easy for yourself. In which case, then you are fuelling into those people who are like nerds with bands over there making things easy for themselves.
So, we've got to account for how much the band affects what we're doing. And even as Jimbo said, rightly you know, accounting for the momentum that that thing has that we must stop. If you do a crapload abandoned stuff, or if anyone has ever been fortunate enough to train a Jimbo's old gym and use some of the, either pneumatic or hydraulic resistance that you play with where actually you are resisting against a fluid, or a gas and it doesn't have this mass component in the same way.
Now this. Only something I think you'll understand if you ever get to play with these bits of care, the feel of the resistance is, is different. And, if you do a load of work on that, and then you come back to lifting loads that are behaving as mass with gravity, even if you've got 50 kilos from the pneumatic resistance versus 50 kilos of, you know, barbell resistance, how they respond when you start moving feels different.
James: Think people can, people can get that experience if they do everything, maybe cuffed press. So, if you've got a cable where the weight on the cable, isn't moving that much, we'll say it's got a four to one ratio. Don't worry about what that is. But basically, you know, the weight on the cable isn't move, move much.
You attach Cuffs elbows and everything you do is cuff naturals, cuff press, cuff pulls, and then you go and do some dumbbell work. Yeah, there'll be a completely different experience. Even if on paper you're doing the same load. Completely different experience. You've still got some inertia, but it's drastically reduced on something like that sort of table cable setup.
So, you can get an idea and appreciation of obviously what Paul's talking
Paul: about. Cause there's this thing, right? But four, like in some sense, forces are forces of force, 20 kilos of force, 20 kilos of force, whether it comes from the dumbbell or comes from a band or comes from whatever, but that's only true in a static setting.
So, if you're holding an isometric, then yes, that is what you will experience. That's true. But the moment you start moving things, the type of resistance that you're playing with can play a role in that. These things restart, feeling quite different, but you know, that's a, maybe a conversation for another day before we drift off down the different types of resistance and what we might do with them and what they mean for what we're doing.
James: So, what, what would be your second, second point
Paul: Cables providing constant tension cause no, they don't. right. I think this, this, I did a post on this on Instagram, not too long ago. And. It still blows my mind a little bit that some people are like, wait, what, and what cables really do? They, they're not constant tension because constant tension would mean they would provide you with the same amount of resistance effectively, all the way through any move, wherever you went, whatever you did.
And they don't do that. And you can test that easily with a five-pound luggage scale. You can get out from Amazon, hook it onto the cable and then pull on it and you go, okay, I've got five kilos here and then move around. and as you move around, you're going to see those five kilos that you've got on the cable.
Doesn't always equal five kilos on the needle, as you accelerate and decelerate and move it around stuff. We almost just touched on a little bit. You're going to see that the force in your hand, the force on the luggage scale changes. So, the tension isn't the same, cuz that's what tension is. Tension is just a description of a pulling apart force.
That's all we've got when people talk about mechanical tension for hypertrophy mechanical pulling apart force is what they're really talking about. That the muscles are experiencing, responding to fighting so that those muscles don't get pulled apart. And it is that that they respond to and through a variety of mechanisms, we end up hopefully growing, but cables don't provide this with the constant tension.
What they really do is they redirect the force of gravity, right? Cause what you are lifting on the cable is fundamentally a dumbbell or a barbell or effectively plates. It's just, they go up around these pulley systems and it's a bit like, you know, you could, this is the power of ropes effectively, right?
That if you've ever slung like a rope round a tree and pulled one thing up by pulling down on the other side of the rope, that's all that's happening here. We've got 5, 10, 15, 20 kilos, whatever it is on that cable stack, it goes up around the pulley system and eventually comes out in your hand. Now that can be something that we call a one-to-one pulley system, a two to one, a four to one, we'll do a whole thing on pulley systems, maybe to try and make a bit more sense of what the hell that means and what the implications are for us with regards to training.
But all that's really happening is instead of that force going downwards, I can now pull in a different direction than straight, vertically up to lift it. Like if those 10 kilos were just sat on the floor, the only way I can lift it is by going up. Right. I, I go and grab it and I lift it upwards. Cause gravity wants to take it down.
When I go round a pulley, I could pull to the right. I could pull to the left. I could pull downwards. I, so I could pull down and a thing that also wants to go down. Wait, and I pull it down and it now goes up. You're like, yeah, that's what a pulley does. It redirects things. So, this redirection of force is the, the fundamental and primary thing to get your head around with the cable.
And that redirection of force ends up changing the challenge that we are starting to experience when we move into a different concept that we call talk, which is what we're dealing with on stuff. Now talk sounds complicated. Usually it's heard with, you know, someone trying to drive cars, or do you know mechanics in a car sense, horsepower, how much talk does it produce?
All that kind of jazz, but really talk is a description of how much rotation would be caused or is trying to be caused by a force. Now I don't worry too much about that. If you ever come on a in person stuff, we will explore this in a way that makes hopefully a lot of sense to you, but in order to create rotation with a force, we need a distance.
I need to put that force somewhere away. From, I need another thing here, which is an access. I need something for it to spin around. If you think of a door in your house, the hinges are the access. This door is going to spin around them, and you don't pull on the hinge to open the door. You pull on the handle and the handle are at a distance away from the door.
And it’s at the furthest end of the door. No one puts the handle for their door right next to the door because your leverage will be shit. You put it at the far end of the door because it gives you greater leverage. This is no different than if you were to use a hammer versus a sledgehammer.
The reason a sledgehammer produces more force when you hit something, is because it's got more leverage. The hammer is way longer. So, the end of it whips around a lot faster and harder when it boom crashes into something same on a crowbar, no one holds the crowbar right next to the little hinge, bit of the crowbar.
They get their hand right on the far end of the crowbar for leverage. When we're talking about talk, we've got this force bit and then we've got a leverage idea. Now you're only going to see this when you start seeing this. So, this bit is a difficult one to describe in a purely auditory setting, but talk is about a force and a distance and this cable, because it redirects the force can end up changing where this distance between let's say your shoulder or your elbow joint and that cable's direction is, and that is what gives us the different experience.
When we're doing, let's say a, a cable that race versus a dumbbell that race, it's not cause it's constant tension. It's because it's redirected the force from down to across in some manner, which changes the experience.
James: And if we just think about it, it's just a different orientation within the world. In a sense of dumbbell is going to always be obviously pulling straight down unless we start adding momentum and moving quickly, but in a static position, it's going to want to drop down.
Whereas that cable is going to want to pull back to where it's come from. But if we were to orientation ourselves differently or lie on our side or something like that, we could create the same challenge with the cable as we could with a dumbbell, it's just a different orientation. And soon as we start seeing lines of force where that dumbbell, where that wants to drop, drop down almost onto your toe, if you're held in it above your hip as IRA and a cable wants to pull back to where it started.
And if we can visualize that line of force and we realize it’s just a change in orientation, it's a change in position.
Paul: Yeah. Perfect. All right. I think we've nailed the tension thing. Hopefully, hopefully we have, otherwise we've just confused people. And then I apologize because we're failing our brief, but I think we did.
Okay there. All right. Jimbo, you're up next pile of sight.
James: Bio mechanic. Jim we're sort of half touched on it already. So just to add to that really that every profile must match. Mm we've got to match everything. So obviously we've touched on that in terms of banding the leg, press banding the Smith machine.
Matching a profile is one of the later things we want to concern ourselves with. When we start to understand mechanics, we start to understand the, maybe the path that we go through. So, the excursion on a chest press, that our hands go through. As we are doing a leg press, if our feet are moving the excursion they go through.
So that path of motion, having an awareness of that and make sure that what the machines and what we are, ideally, the way we're going to move is some congruency with that. We've got maybe some joint alignment on a leg extension. Are we set up in a way that's optimal rather than trying to make it super heavy at one point in the range and super light, and the other point in the range relative to where we're stronger and weaker now actually have we thought about our joint positioning?
Have we thought about the way that our muscle fibres run, and they want to contract in from that length and position to the shorten position that may be a hell of a lot more important than aligning or sort of setting up this congruent profile? Are we aware of the range? That we can work through within a movement within that chest press with that Smith machine press, rather than thinking we're going to try and make it heavier and light at any point.
No, actually let's focus on the ranges. We're going to work to let's focus on the ability to control every inch of that range. Stop at any point within that range, have we got an awareness for the tempo we're going to work out? Do we want to pause at the bottom rather than bouncing out about the bottom? Do we want to explode through certain parts of the movement?
Do we want to consciously go slower through certain parts of the movement? And let our ability to contract to start the movement with a contraction rather than start the momentum, all these things plus many, many more could come in. So, so much earlier on within the journey of understanding excise understanding machine, before we think about profile profiles, almost like the icing on a cake, other than if you are a complete beginner and you cannot perform the excise because your strength levels are that.
at the top of a leg extension. You have not got the ability to extend your knee because the weight of your foot tip fi the input pad, the stuff going on with the machine that comes up, that's just too heavy. Then if we're at that extreme from a physio rehab perspective, then yes. We need to look at that early on because it's super key, but for everyone else, it can come as the icing on the cake later down the
Paul: line.
Yeah. I, I suppose that that's one of those ones that people don't often think about unless they work in a physio or rehab setting, or they've been around someone who's had catastrophic, often neural based injury, but can be a variety of different injuries where they can't lift the weight of their limb.
and you go. Crap. What do I do? If someone can't lift the weight of their limb yet, like none of the machines are now going to be an option for us and what am I? Well, they can't lift their limb. What am I going to give them a dumbbell? How do I make their limb lighter? You're like, you can go about doing all these things.
If you start understanding mechanics and it gives you a, a great appreciation once you start really thinking about all the things that must happen at the same time as each other, for you to just move you do get quite a deep appreciation for how amazing the human body is and how well it, it can coordinate stuff.
And even that thing, sometimes you'll hear us talk about the skill of contraction. And sometimes if you're not familiar with this world, and I think if you don't think about rehab to some degree, it feels almost insulting. You're like, what do you mean I can, I couldn't move right. I can, of course my bicep contracts, I bend my elbow.
What do you want? It's like, yes. And that's absolutely true. So, it's not like skill is something you either completely have or completely don't have unless you're, you know, a baby. But it, it has levels and your ability to maximally contract, recruit everything in that tissue, stabilize everything, keep it well aligned.
That's really what we're starting to mean by the skill of contraction. There's a. Known as the strength deficit and the strength deficit refers to. If I ask you, let's say we strap Jimbo into a leg extension and I ask him to shove as hard as he possibly can voluntarily, we call this a maximum voluntary.
We're going to do it in one position, isometric contraction against something that literally won't go anywhere, unless he's God's Zillow strong, right. Breaks the machine or something. So, he's in one joint angle. He's going to shove as hard as he possibly can. And we're going to measure how much force he produces.
Cool. We call that the maximum voluntary isometric contraction. We then get the old cattle prod out and electrocute the crap out of his leg directly and measure how much force he now involuntarily produces from their tissues, maximum involuntary isometric contraction. And we compare the two. What you find is there is a difference that you are stronger.
Involuntarily than you are voluntarily, which means the limiter between these two things is your ability to coordinate and recruit, which is a nervous system issue. And the bigger that gap is, the less effective your training is going to be from a hypertrophy fee perspective, cause there's got to be a bunch of tissue you are not tapping into, and beginners have a bigger strength deficit than advanced people.
So, training closes the gap. It's different between different muscle groups. The quads seem to have like a, maybe up to a 15 and a bit percent difference. Whereas the biceps might only be a few percentage points. It will vary person to person varies on the complex, the exercise, et cetera, et cetera. But this idea that skill is involved in contraction or that contraction is a skill I think is.
Underappreciated by a lot of people. And again, if you ever come to one of our in-person things or go to a biomechanics course, that's run by some great people that understand this type of stuff. They will work with you and develop that skill, put it, and plug it into an exercise. And the experience of doing that in amongst everything else that we've touched on getting the path, right.
Maybe playing with that profile, playing with some intention, controlling the tempo, yada, yada, yada can give you a different exercise experience than, than not doing all those bits and pieces within there. But I also liked, and maybe Jimo, you can say more about this. Cause I thought as you were talking, you know, we use this congruent profile a lot, but you then went essentially, what about a congruent path?
right. That, that matters maybe more like if you're on that, we were talking about a leg extension, right? So, everyone's familiar with extending their leg and the resistance wants to come that way. But imagine that your leg was straight, your knee was straight, and someone came with a force. Like at 90 degrees and tried bending your knee round to the right, rather than back, that would be like the least congruent path for your knee,
James: your knee.
Doesn't my knee's been there.
Paul: how did it feel when it went there?
James: Well, it dislocated,
Paul: so that's the far end of not much matching a path with the path of resistance, but how do we, I mean, what do you start thinking about if you, can you tell people a little bit about what you're thinking when matching path of maybe the resistance with the path of the body or the anatomy or whatever you want to jump in on
James: the, the simplest way to try and think about that is just go through the movement, go through an excursion without being fixed into a position, whether that's the machine that really locks it in a set position, or even sometimes like a dumber on the cable, there's still a certain guided path that we get from that.
But if we go through that without any external resistance what feels comfortable to you? What feels natural to. And then work with that rather than trying to allow that machine to dictate the path that we go through. Yes, certain machines obviously going to force almost in positions that maybe aren't comfortable and that's how understand what is ideal for you and then see what you can adjust, see what you can tweak, see what you can play with to work with that.
Paul: So, if we were thinking of like a press, we might think your arms want to come together as you press forwards, right. They converge, but how much they converge is different for all of us based on things like how wide you are, how long your arms, someone with like Albatross reach Jimbo has may well go through a, a greater amount of convergence than someone with T-Rex arms.
And let's say a, a giant barrel ribcage, right? Their thing doesn't converge as much. And I'm sure most of us have probably at some point in our lives been on a machine in the gym that we were just like, this can feel all like this pad doesn't suit me. It doesn't stay in the right place. And like this moves around.
I'm thinking particularly if there's a, sorry, arsenal strength. There's an arsenal strength, hip thrust that I'm thinking of that you’ve got a rolling pad for your back, right. And then a pad for where the weight's going to go and where it's going to start pulling on you, but that the rolling pad bit doesn't go backwards and forward.
So, you're either the right length for this machine or you are not. I remember watching someone in the gym. She must have been about like five-two or something. And so, she had this pad basically on her neck, and she's trying to get in position and she's just clearly not happy with what's going on.
Lots of machines have a similar problem. Not necessarily with that, that setup part, but the, they diverge too much. They converge too much. They don't suit. They don't go in the same direction that you want to go. They go up too quickly. When you want to go forwards, they go out to the side. When you want to come in, they can do lots of different stuff that you might not necessarily know exactly what's going on.
If you're not familiar with this world, but I will almost guarantee you that you've been on machines that just didn't feel very nice. And one of the most likely reasons that they don't feel very nice is their path of motion sucks relative to your path of motion.
James: Yep. And just to go back on a point that you touched on originally, when you're looking at the skill around contraction Hmm.
And the biggest, I don't want to say issue with that, but the biggest reason we don't realize it's such a skill. Is because we're in this industry very lightly because we've been training for a while. We maybe came from a sporting background; we really enjoy it. We're conscious of the movement. We're conscious of what we're doing.
Our clients are not us. Yeah. Our clients very occasionally they'll have obviously a high, high skill level. Occasionally they'll come from a sporting background. But a lot of times, if you're listening to this, your clients will not have a high level of skill coming into certain movements the way you think it's easy to squeeze a muscle, they will not be able to do the same thing.
Yeah. So just understand that your clients, not, you, they have not got that same ability to squeeze and contract. So, it does have to be something that has to be learned and must be taught.
Paul: And I would like to lead in by just, you know, the first time you meet them, just tell them they're deeply unskilled just not insulting them.
don’t do that.
James: But, but any anyone here who may I Do know, plays a musical instrument, like I don't. If you play for these events and you were to try and teach me how to play, like the skill requirement that you probably can just automatically do that without even thinking about that.
Yeah. Yeah. Take that to some other event as like, I would be hopeless for trying to coordinate my left and right hand, let alone trying to read some music or anything else. Yeah, yeah.
Paul: Yeah. It's got to be FARA. on repeat for a little while were duh. No. And then hopefully gradually getting better.
Yeah, absolutely. It's a nice way of thinking about skill stuff. Okay. Well, skill stuff probably leads us into one of my favourites least favourite things, which is the whole concept of almost anything that includes the word functional. Ah, no one knows what this word means. Right? It's banded about maybe more than.
Healthy and balanced and other what I would call buzzworthy stuff. And what I think whenever I think of this, this is the issue that I think of. Would anyone advocate for the opposite? Like when you say I'm for healthy their pro like
James: there probably would be a small selection. Yeah. They’d
Paul: be weird. Like when people say,
James: when people say they're like in maybe in the body building world, like just don't
Paul: want to get that.
I feel like, but I feel like that's almost them being just because they don't want to be associated with most of the people who say functional cause. Okay. So, I use an example from I think it's Dan, John, who said function just means fit for purpose. Yes. So, if you're a bodybuilder, what's the purpose being jacked and massive sweet.
Okay. So, anything that suits, that goal is functional for that. And so that's kind of the bit that, I mean, when people say functional, when they stay healthy, I go well, who again, who is for the opposite. And if the answer is basically no one, then you haven't given anything usable, right? Like I'm not who go, like, have you ever met anyone?
Who's like, I'm for not healthy I'm. And like, occasionally you see people sort of kicking back about this, but one of the biggest problems as coaches we can run up against is assumption. An assumption is often built on when we shared a word, but we didn't mean the same thing when we shared that word. And whether that's as we just touched on squeezing a muscle or flexing it, like I said it to my client, they must know what that means.
and that's often not the case. And so functional is one of those things. I'm for functional train. I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like I have a thing in my head that goes to probably some kind of CrossFit picking thing, but I mean, what, how much of CrossFit is functional? When are you snatching in any functional mat?
No, one's on a plane. Like. Got to get this in the overhead locker. Ready? 3, 2, 1 budget, right? And like launching it above their head. like, that's that a Turkish get up is not fun. No one gets up that manner. Like I'm just casually holding this tray of glasses above my head, and I need to get up from the ground without spilling them like that.
What are you training? what are you training for? Like, I get to some degree what some of these people are saying, but I think it must come back to the concept of fit for what. What is fitness fit for something, what is functional for something? Am I helping Deirdre be able to sit up out of bed again?
Because she hasn't been able to for a little while, for who knows, what reason is it regain the ability to contract their legs so they can, you know, move their limb. So, we touched on that, the case for some people, is it learning to walk? We very rarely as coaches in the gym work with that level of regression, but don't get it twisted.
They exist. Or am I trying to help someone just get massive and that's functional for them? Have they got issue that is impeding their ability to train that thing and make it massive? In which case does that functional thing have to be regressed and look nothing like the activity that they're ultimately trying to improve, because that's the limit for that thing to occur.
It's a bit like, you know, everyone knows this one when clients are starting out and they're learning to deadlift, what bit of their body gives out first enter the grip. right. Like, I feel my, my grip ass fucked, right? Yeah. It's caused your grip's weak as piss and until it's stronger or you decide to use straps or whatever, it's the limiting factor.
So we might be using it to try and grow other stuff, but sometimes you experience an issue, not in the thing you're trying to target, but in the weak link, in which case maybe if we wanted someone to max deadlift without straps and stuff, they might need some direct grip work at some point, if it was super crap in order to bring that up, to work on the deadlift and the.
This grit work doesn't look exactly like the data. So, it doesn't matter. It's functional for that purpose. And so functional annoys me for all those reasons you got any others?
James: No, just to touch really on what we've already mentioned about skill requirements. If you look at these functional movements that they're people to advocating, whether it's through CrossFit, whether it's through wood shops, whatever it is, the skill requirements to do, these movements are insane.
If it's under control under awareness, maybe under a certain amount of contraction and to warrant, maybe get into that level. I'm not saying we can't do them movements. Definitely. We can, if that's a goal, if we enjoy doing them, but we've got to know how to break the movement down, I think. Okay. What makes up that?
What needs to be held relatively isolated, relatively lot. What needs to allow movement? How can I then go and work on the joints that need to allow movement? How can I go and work on the joints that need to be held relatively still in relative isolation to then bring things back in rather than just thinking?
Yeah, I've got to have my client moving better. We're not actually understanding the skill prerequisite for that movement.
Paul: I suppose that lays in quite nicely to, you know, when we're evaluating something and we're looking at it, are we, we're trying to basically think, is this a skill issue or an output?
And sometimes it can be a bit of both. It's not like these should be completely separated from each other and treated as though there's no overlap. That's not the case, but if all of you let, we'll simplify, if all the muscles can generate adequate force for the task being demanded, then it's just about coordination issue.
We've just got to figure out how to put it all together. You've got the skills you just haven't learned to play as a band yet. Right? The bass player can play. The singer can sing. The drama can run. The guitarist can show off. Right? Everyone knows what their job is in the band. They just need to learn the song together.
But what if you've got a band? Well, one of you can't play the instrument yet. We decided to put Jimbo on the piano. And as you rightly said earlier, he doesn’t know what any of this stuff is. We're like, ah, fuck. Well, we can keep doing band practice. We can. Trying to do that activity, but we might be better off taking Jimbo out to a different room and being like, right, dude, this is the C that's a D that this is a C major chord, see these things.
Right. Okay. And, teaching him the instrument so that he can play in the band, the same thing in the gym. If we've got something, whatever that, and again, you must go through an assessment for this before, you know which bit it is like, how would you know, this is one of my problems with predetermined advice.
And I get it to some degree, you know, the internet, we're putting out messages to large numbers of people. And so sometimes to give some use, it's not going to be useful for others and it might confuse other people. So, well, what do we do? Just put out nothing. Don't try this. So, you could caveat try this thing, strengthen your hip flexors. But that doesn't mean that it's going to work for everyone.
And in an in person setting our best way is an evaluation. If you're not assessing, you're guessing and all that jazz. So, we would go through our assessment. We would try and identify who in the band can't play very well and go, right. How do we put in a protocol to teach them how to play the instrument for four weeks, six weeks?
And then can we bring them back into band practice after that? Okay. We've decided, oh, in this woodchop, Jimbo's QL, his quadratus lumborum on his right side is crap. Now I just said QL, but that could be a bunch of others. Is it his internal oblique and external oblique and the resultant they produce to blame for this thing is? Is his Lat switching off? I don't know.
It could be any of these things. I have a little pet peeve when people try and super identify. It's that muscle in an area where there's a crap load of muscles that do similar functions and overlap. I'm like, you can't see in there. Right? What you can say though, this output in this motion, in this position is fucking crap.
relative to the other side, relative to the rest of what this person seems to have everywhere. It's a bit of a subjective call, but when you come across it, you’ll see it and you'll know it. And you'll like, okay. Yeah, no, that's pronounced. If it's barely different, you might be scraping the barrel for ideas, but usually you, you might well come across something where you like, okay, that's really crap.
And you go, all right, well, what happens if I strengthen it or strengthen it or test it a little bit. And then I bring it back now, sometimes in an assessment, just doing a couple of little isometrics in the right way for that brings it almost, I want to say online a little bit better, and you can almost immediately put it into the exercise, and it feels suddenly different for the person that's not uncommon.
My own girlfriend experienced a very similar thing for some of. RDL or dead lifting work around her hips that are related to hip flexes and lateral flexion and rotation motion. So, if we strengthen those things suddenly, oh wow. Her range of motion increases in the hip loads and it feels different.
You can make that. And otherwise, sometimes you might need to spend a month, couple of months working this thing in a bit more isolation before bringing it back to band practice so that it can play the song in a way that you hope.
James: I'm going to go where the bar must touch the chest. It's got to be through a full range and the bar's got to be touch gesture if it's not a full range, it doesn't count.
Paul: Yeah. I, I like to cheat this. See what I do is I go, just go on Amazon and type in comedy inflatable Tits. And I strap them to my chest. And then mate, I can bench press load. Right? Cause no one, no one specifies that it had to be exactly my chest and that I couldn't put anything on top of it. So, I feel like this is a perfectly legit strategy for working around this. The, there were being sarcastic.
James: Highlights the point that every one of us is built different, whether that's the size of our rib cage, whether that's the length of our arms, plus multiple other things we won't necessarily get into, but everyone's completely different in terms of their structure. So, yes, there's certain we could say rules around exercise that we've all thought we've got to do.
And I thought that was the case for 10, 10 years of PT that I'd have my clients go all the way down to the chest when they bench pressed, this had to do, or like, no, that's, you're escaping the challenge.
Paul: You're trying to, yeah. I used to people all the time.
James: like 9, 9, 9, 9
So, yeah, it's just understanding that there might be an exercise range that we've heard for years and years and years, but that doesn't mean there's the range that we should work to. We've got to understand. Well, what's our joint available range. We understand what's the range that our muscle can work through our muscle contract of and then start to think, okay, is the range appropriate for this exercise for us as an individual for our clients?
And once we understand their structure a little bit, once we understand the range of motion, that's comfortable for the joint. Once we understand the range of motion we can contract from and control from, then we think, okay, maybe we're going to work that range. And is that full range, whatever that may be for that individual appropriate at that moment in time, it might not be, we might need to work into that with the load that we're going to be lifting, maybe throughout the rest of the range, they might have an ability to contract at that bottom part of the range bench rest.
They might be able, the joint may be able to get into that, but bottom position, but they just don't feel it through the right muscles. They might more be more anterior Dell. They might be more triceps for certain reasons. So just knowing that it's always got to be individual. For that moment, almost for that workout for that session, rather than just a set generic place, because some days may think things may feel a little bit different to others.
And if you are 21, listen to this, you probably haven't experienced that yet. but as the years start building joints start to feel a little bit different and you've got to be more aware of your body and feel in that moment, what feels appropriate. Absolutely. Rather than just going with a generic rule for every exercise out.
Paul: It's also like the, you’ve seen the cambered bar that allows you to go even further and still that bar must touch the chest bar. I'm like, well, if that bar touches the chest, then the normal bar, that's just cheating. That's not far enough. Right. It should always be just progressively further. But it obviously shouldn't be, I say, obviously, I don't know that it's obvious, but you know, if we walk through little thought experiment for it and go, I've got Peter crouch about to bench press on my left.
Seven feet, sorry, Peter, but gang man of all time. And then on the other hand, I've got Eddie Hall, thickest man of all time, or certainly up there, the size of those rib cages, you know, beer crouch is, is walking around as a small, you know, plastic bottle, rib cage. Eddie hall has a fucking beer barrel that he's wandering around with.
And then we add in, okay, they've got these limbs on the side of the beer barrel and the plastic water bottle. And on the side of the plastic water bottle, we’ve got these long stick rulers, things that are sticking off and they're a meter long. And then on Eddie's hall one, we've got, you know, Stubby little T-Rex arms sticking out the side.
Well, if you ask Eddie Hall to bring that bar down and touch his chest and look things like where's the back of his arm relative to the back of his body or his body, it's not even in line with the middle of it. Yeah. Right. You can go and look at this. Now you then need to be able to see a little bit inside of a joint and imagine what's going on.
So, you're going to need to know some anatomy and stuff in order to be able to do that. But the mechanics internally for his Peck are super different and super more advantageous for Eddie Hall than if we have Peter crouch do the same thing and go, okay, keep coming back. Keep coming back. Keep coming back, keep coming back.
Okay. The bar has finally made it to his chest. His elbow is now three feet below the back of his body. the joint angle for his shoulder is different. And the mechanics for his Peck are different as a result of that. And that then comes back to a little bit of, well, what do we want to have this exercise.
If Peter CRO says he still wants to bench press more than anything on earth, then have at it, do you know, you can do what you like if however, he is going, nah, I'm doing this. Cause I want to grow my chest. Well, then we go like, ah, well then, we have a problem, sir. And we could pick some better things that might be a bit better suited to you.
Or if he comes and goes, this just really hurts my shoulder we might be able to look at the go. Yep. No shit kind of probably looks like it might as well. So, who are we talking about and what are their goals are going to be something you hear us talk about at the PT project over and over and over again so much that we want to drill it into your skull?
If you ask a question, we're going to do loads of Q&A’s as the years go by. And we want to help you guys with stuff that you might know about when you're coming up with your questions, try and keep this in mind who. And what goal, right? Try and formulate stuff around that. Cause if you give us that we can give you more specific answers cause a lot of them otherwise end up being, well, it depends on this.
If we've got this, then this and if we've got that, then that. And so, if you can be nice and clear with that as even a thought process, we can probably provide a tiny bit more value within that suppose the other one that, that goes on quite well. Then I want to make you talk about a bit further two bars to chest.
The other one that is the most common. I think possibly even more common than bar to chest is asked to grass. why what's wrong with as to grass Jimbo, what are, what do we dislike about what do we think it's bullshit.
James: It depends on the context we're using it. when we're looking at trying to in a very, very similar way, we're looking at obviously bath chest with a bench for everyone's built completely differently.
The range of motion, one person will have to get to, to get their hamstring, to touch the calf. Compared to the next, when we're looking at the joint range around the knee, let on the hip and the spine and ankle as well. If we just focus on the knee, one person is having to go through a huge amount of knee flexion.
I don't know, random figure, but 120 degrees. Next person will be at 90 degrees of knee flexion. And, they’ve got this jacked calf, this huge hamstring, and they've gone through a full range for what they can do. Cause they've got this tissue there, or maybe there's this body fat there that's in the way that won't allow their G their joint to go much past 90 degrees of flexion.
Yeah. But then you've got someone like me. Who's absolutely shredded, it's not the fact I've got no muscle at all. It's not the lack of muscle. It's just, cause my legs are so lean that I can probably get 150 degrees of the reflection there. So, my full range from a joint perspective is going to be completely different.
To that person. Who's got tissue bulk of some form let alone someone's ability to get into that movement under load. Yeah. That's something where it's tough to describe just on a podcast. And it's easy to see visibly when you do some stuff face to face with us, hands on with us and you throw the practical based stuff.
That's coming up very, very soon. But just knowing that the range that I go through in that squat with FES that are three foot long compared to Ben Pakulski, whose femurs is maybe half that length and relatively look at his proportions, his femurs, not the fact that he's just shorter than me is the fact that he's FES are proportionally smaller.
When you look at his other segment proportions within his body. Whereas myself, my FEMA's relatively longer, so that's not just, what's making up my height, but my femur is much longer. And someone with a longer FEMA is going to struggle to get down to the bottom. They're going to get part, get to a point where they feel like they're stuck.
They're not actually stuck. If they just went further, they'd fall over they wouldn't have the ability to, so they get to, oh, I just can't sit any further. They probably can. They just fall over, and people just don't generally want to fall over. So, some people structurally have not got that ability to get their ass to the grass, get their hamstring, to touch their calf.
So again, it comes down to, well what's around that joint to allow a range of motion While making up that movement with a squat to allow that load or allow, allow that range of motion under a certain.
Paul: Jimbo touched on segmental proportions, which is just a fancy way of describing the ratios between your limbs and your torso and the bits of you that make you, you.
And some people have ratios that fold together like a lovely Chinese menu, accordion thing. There's nothing sticking out the side or overlap like, ah, this is beautiful. You could fold this up and down all day. Happy days.
James: Think of an Olympic professional Olympic lifter at the top pro ranks. Think of how they sit into that front squat.
Paul: Ah, why can't I really, why can't I do this? They're like, well, you, you ate the same, sir. Like you often have, sports self-select. So, basketball players are basically all ginormous.
James: Paul, you're trying to say to me that bodybuilders are the hardest working most dedicated athlete, not any self-selection in their ability to build that physique.
Paul: No, no, it's, it's all just hard work. It's all hard work. Genetics don't play a role and sports don't
James: I wasn't good at basketball cause I'm six, seven.
Paul: Yeah, no, it was all hard work. But those are the things. And that doesn't mean, you know, we're not trying to take away from the hard work that goes alongside it.
Of course not. You know, most professional, anyone is working quite hard and mainly because when you get to the highest levels of anything, they're all talented, they all suit the damn sport pretty much. Right. So, you you're going to need some hard work in there, but every sport self-select Michael Phelps had like shovel hands.
That's probably quite useful. If you're going to be a swimmer, it helps that Shaq was like seven foot two, or whatever the hell height he was. And even the shorter basketball players are tall right now you're only six, four Midge. Right? almost no other sport would ever say that. And it's true for the Olympic weightlifters and therefore how well they squat and fold up.
It's true for the Cross Fitters go. And you will find outliers because you always find the occasional outlier. Most sports tend towards a body type that suit it, cause no shit, every sport or every, what I really should say within that is every demand has something that suits it a bit better than others. And so, if you've jealously like myself, watch those Cross Fitters or those Olympic weightlifters or the body wheelers or whatever you be like, ah, I could try that.
And it doesn't seem to lead to quite the same outcomes for you as a Rich Froning or as a Phil Heath or as insert the person you're like, oh maybe, okay. I haven't got quite all that. That's okay. We don't you know, we can't all be born to be exceptional at everything that we want to turn our hand to.
That's just the way the cookie crumbles and the way life goes. So, some of us, when we start folding up and trying to follow. The super well suited to that exercise, the genetic elite, a lot of us crumble because we are not suit to it. It doesn't expose us to the same forces instead of that nice Chinese menu.
We fold up like something a three-year-old, tried to fold together and Cray on in. You're like, well, this just looks like a pirate shit. Why is the knee out over there? Your shoulders up near your what's going on here, doesn't look right. And sometimes there's things you can do about that. Right. And as we touched on, it could be, are we missing output somewhere?
Do we need to improve this? But some of it is just proportions and then you need to blame your parents, right? Not everyone is going to squat, asked to grasp and look like, you know, the pictures of some Indian tribesmen sat at a well having a great time. You're like, ah, well, look, you know, that's what we were designed to do.
That was always the argument I remember hearing from this is like, that's what we evolved to be able to do. It's just modern life that has. Stopped us from being able to do those things that we could do as a baby or the tribesman over here. We, we
James: evolved with steel barbells.
Paul: exactly perfectly symmetrical steel barbells.
I heard in the rift valley that they were always just kicking around the place. It's
James: like, whoa, no, I mean, perfect. 20 kilo bumper plates.
Paul: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like, no, we didn't evolve these things. You, you, aren't the same structure as a baby with a giant head that makes up like a quarter of its damn mass and stuff, as you go through those things.
And then as, as, even as you get older, people always use the examples of the people who are super well suited to the squat to show what you could do in the squat. Well, I may as well pull out a picture of a seven-foot dunk and just be like, ah, look what we can do. Why can't you do that? Like, well, you've selected the best example.
This feels a bit harsh. Again, sometimes maybe you hear us say that and think we're saying, well, there's nothing you can do to improve ranges. And we don't want to say that that's not true. Sometimes you can. It's just that you can't always, and sometimes people can keep trying when there's short of surgery, there ain't anything you're going to do within that one, which this next transition.
Is a complete left field. One I'd like to say, which brings us into, but it doesn't. However, this is, this is our last one, which in some sense is why we started the PT project and what we said at the beginning of this podcast, which is that too much shit is confusing. And I call this the mouth fucking thesaurus issue that almost everyone who gets into biomechanics.
And I say this and having been there as well. So, I don't mean to be hyper hypercritical of this, but we use almost the most complicated language we could possibly think of using often where a simpler one will do. So instead of someone saying speed, they decide to say velocity because they've heard someone else say velocity.
And if you ask them, what's the difference between a speed and a velocity. They wouldn't be able to tell you, by the way, a velocity has a direction as well as a speed, which is the difference between velocity and speed. Right? So, if I said, ah, Jimbo is going, is traveling at five miles an hour.
Apparently not very fast. I don’t know why I decided to make you go relatively slowly in this. Okay. I sort of know how fast he's going, but I don't. Did he go to the left? Did he go to the right? Did he go up in a bit, like, where did he go? Velocity tells me he's going up five miles an hour to the left. That would be a velocity versus a speed.
People use vector, a bunch in this type of stuff. When they just mean direction, a vector has a direction and a magnitude and amount, a size. When people talk about the force direction, they're almost universally. However, just saying it's going in that direction over there. So, the force vector is this way.
You just call it the direction. Everyone knows what the word direction is and what it means. You don't have to say vector to within that people aren't going to be like, doesn't always say, didn't use the right word. I'm like, you are not using the right word. You're not telling me how big the magnitude was.
Simplify where you can. So, people have a chance of following along with some of this stuff, you don't have to say accrue where you could just say growth, right. Instead, if who are we talking to is always going to be a big part of our job as coaches, or as any, as any professional in any industry, your ability to communicate your information to a third party who doesn't know as much as you, which is presumably why you have the job right.
Is crucial. And sometimes that makes, okay, what am I trying to say? And maybe I grew up in that world. So, I'm involved in a bunch of verbiage that the rest of the world doesn't share. Can I even step outside of that and go, oh shit? Yeah. Yeah. Assume that I didn't grow up in this world. Would I know what half of these things mean?
And if the answer is then no, well then, a quick task is all right. How do I sit down with this and try and put these concepts into words that I could tell other people about because you equally, if I had to teach biomechanics stuff to someone in Mandarin, I wouldn't know the words, because I don't know the Mandarin equivalent for moment arm or talk or any of this, that the other?
But I understand the concept so I could draw lines in, and I could put shapes in, and I could point at this and be like right. And I could explain my point without the words. The words are just these labels we've given shit. They're not the intellectual part. The intellectual part is the concept that is described by the words.
So really try and delve into that because I also promise you this. If you get good at conveying information, in a way people can understand, you'll almost always be in. You don't have to have mouth fucked at the sous to come across as intelligent and smart use simple words instead of the big fancy ones.
That's my last part of the bullshit biomechanics thing is that that get my goat. Anything else Jim, or we about only
James: to add to that, just for a very simple thought that the clients that you're speaking to not trying to downplay their intelligence by any means you should go across, like, you're explaining something to a 10-year-old.
Don't go and use congruency. Yeah. Say if this machine's heavier here is, is, is that in a place where a little, we're a little bit stronger if it's lied to here, is that in a place where we're a little bit weaker? Like that's the type thing don't use converge. Just say, oh, we'll jump on that press where their handles come together.
That, your client is not, is not going to instantly know. They probably know what converging is, but they're not going to relate that to the machine and the path motion you, you are going through. Yeah, yeah. Go use that. When the handles come together, like
Paul: they'll take a moment going, I've heard the word converge.
What does it mean? And then there, they're processing a little quick understanding of this word while you've continued talking. And then they're like, ah, what's he saying now? You know, that was the perfect example. And again, we've used the word converging. We've used some bigger words during the recording of this podcast.
We're not saying never use them, but we must know who are we talking to? And is that appropriate to like, at a certain point, if you want to get into biomechanics, you are going to learn some of these words because they are the words that are shared to some degree amongst the community of people who do this type of thing.
And sometimes they're the right word. They're, they're a perfectly fine word, but we're always going to be coming back. Can we, if I can say it simpler, then I'm going to say it simpler unless I have reason to do otherwise. Cause it's funny or interesting and data, whoever your audience is on a slightly tangential topic.
It is our job to talk and communicate with people as coaches, trying to understand who your audience is, is important because that tells you how to communicate to them. Right? Pretty much everyone's audience. If you are a fitness coach, in any sense is going to be conveying training and nutrition information.
It just is right. So, we're going to have to understand calories and protein, and we're going to have to understand what, you know, various exercises things are that bit doesn't change, but how I get people to buy into what I'm saying, changes the specificity of the examples I give to get them on side or to get them to understand me are going to change.
If we're talking to you guys listening to this, we could say con conversion. We're like, yeah, cool. But if you don't work with coaches who are into biomechanics, don't say converge, say exactly what Jimbo said, the one where the handles come together. sweet. Cool, perfect. It's that doesn't contain any less information than saying converging.
It really doesn't, it's not less intellectual. And it's, if you need to be able to do that, to jump between things and say it in different manners, and that's probably a reasonable place to wrap this fucker up because it start, it brings us back actually to the start, which we said we wanted to try and do some of this stuff in a way that we don't lose people, but we excite people about biomechanics without confusing them about it.
And hopefully that idea there of using simple words, instead of unnecessary, complex words, that doesn't mean always simple words doesn't mean you can't use a word without, you know, it's got four letters in that word. Can't use that one. I'm only going to communicate with cat and in the right, like, no, you know, as simple as possible, but no simpler.
That's always pretty much the idea. And Jimbo's thought experiment of, could you communicate that to a child presuming that child isn't savant or Stephen Hawking as a 10-year-old because then that 10-year old's probably going to lose me as well. I'm like, I don’t know what that 10-year-old is saying then it's, it's a good place to start.
James: Yeah. I'd say if there's anything that anyone feels we've missed at all, then just let us know, hit us up on
Paul: Instagram. Yeah. The best place to find either of us is Instagram. Just search for James Sutton search for Paul Standell search for the PT project. You'll see us come up on there. And if you no, no blue ticks yet, but we're working on it.
If, if you guys have any other things that you think are bullshit in the Biomechanics industry that we haven't touched on yet do heads up because we like a laugh and we like some shit that we haven't kind of thought of. It always gives us stuff to jump off on as well. So, you know, if you want to rant us DMS, send us a DM with shit that annoys you in the biomechanics world as well.
And we can, we can share in your annoyance or, or maybe we disagree and be like, no, no, I think you're wrong. I think I love that part of biomechanics. I doubt it. I'll probably annoy me as well. So, thank you guys very, very much for listening to the first episode of the PT project podcast. This was bullshit biomechanics ideas, and we will see you next time.